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Bad Quaker Podcast
With Ben Stone 
Does Ben really apologize to Jack Spirko?
Caution! Today’s podcast is over 1 hour 20 minutes, and Ben is anything but kind to fellow podcaster Jack Spirko.
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What seems to be a common thread in all of these spats within the community is Jack. Fight with Chris Duane, now fight with Ben. He is a smart man, and obviously a great marketer, but he has a huge overly inflated ego – that is the real issue. He believes his own press. Until that changes, I don’t have a lot of use for him.
Years ago I had started listening to some of Spirko’s podcasts.
I liked the some half dozen or so I had listened to, thinking he was an intelligent guy with intelligent things to say, with maybe some minor things said that put my wtf antenna up. But then he said some Anarchists were posting on his forum and he made it clear that he found them to be annoying. So he felt the need to address them by going on the attack, breathlessly telling some half baked bizarre story how great it would be if anybody who wanted to, could take your entire family out to the back 40 and murder them, and there would be nobody to stop them or even investigate later. Wow.
Okay, fine, he, like most don’t understand AnCap or Voluntarist views or how things might work in such societies, so I just let it go. Besides, that’s not why I thought I was listening to his ‘survival’ show anyway.
A couple of podcasts later, and he tells the story of how the neighbor’s teenagers were playing their music too loud for his liking, and how he was going to go over there “and put a foot up their asses”. Even while telling the story he sounded pissed off. He then goes on to say that as soon as those kids saw him walking up towards the house they immediately scrambled to shut the music off. Then I’m thinking, just what kind of a person do his neighbors, the people who know him in person, think he is? Apparently the kids who know him, think he’s somebody to be in fear of. Why is that, I wondered. Anyway, that was enough for me.
So I’m certainly not surprised to hear now, that he’s being a Jackass, again. Or always has been.
Don’t worry about this at all, Ben. Those of us who know better, know who the loose cannon is here.
Cheers!
Andre
Ontario, Canada, tax farm.
Davi Barker seems to really like this Ben Stone character. I respect Davi, perhaps I’ll give this a shot.
Well……….I am not surprised.
I started listening to TSP because of your mention of it Ben, in some of your early shows.
There are things about what Jack is doing that I really like and find value in, but his approach to written communication with his listeners (myself personaly, and many others) in the comment section of blog is absolutely horrific. For me it has raised many red flags about the man behind TSP. Each time it gets harder and harder to click the link to his site.
And when Jack is angry, his delivery of otherwise passably good content in podcasts comes out as an angry, patronizing jackass shouting orders.
Jack does not seem to pay a lot of attention to what people have to say, but when he perceives that someone is being critical, he waists the time to write long, often scathing responses, that don’t make scene or necessarily even have anything to do with the comment he is “responding” to. He seems to have either and inferiority complex, and anger and verbal aggression is his defense mechanism, or a god complex, and anger and verbal aggression is his method of punishing anyone not overtly praising him.
So it comes as no surprise that he does, or has done the same to others in other areas of the internet.
I hope that Jack is truly moving away from, and letting go of his stateist beliefs, as it seems he is, and that it isn’t simply marketing for the sake of profit.
I know I harbored a lot more anger before I was able to fully reject the stateist indoctrination I received from public schooling, the military, and society. Now that I have embraced my anarchist instincts and the zero aggression principle, life is so much better, even with the full knowledge of how bad certain aspects, beyond my control, are.
If I ever find a reliable way to prevent the government stealing anymore of my money, or to get back any of what has been stolen, without getting myself caged or killed, I will proudly do it. They have been extorting me since age 13.
Thank you Ben. Keep up the good work.
Wow, this was quite the podcast. Just when I was getting over the Chris Duane drama. I just don’t know what to think about this. Jack definitely can go off if you disagree with him, I’ve been the recipient of such a few months back, albeit, not as bad as you outline here. You sound articulate and have a good podcast voice, crisp and clear. I will listen to a few more podcasts Ben
Brent Eamer
Brackley Beach
Prince Edward Island
Canada
No worries there will be no war between TSP and BQ. Ben says basically I suck, I am okay with that. This isn’t like Duane where it actually effects my life.
If I was ever harsh to you, I don’t remember. That said text is the lowest form of communications and being disagreed with isn’t being beaten up.
As for me, I won’t even bother to listen to this episode, or respond other than this one time. Ben has shown his true colors. In any event I am sure the day and the day after I did my piece on this BQ got more visits than any time in history.
Ben the offer is out, if you ever want to man up and apologize I am happy to accept it and to reciprocate. However if you insist on your continuation of attacking me, you will get a proper libertarian response. As you represent no threat you will simply be ignored.
I do wish you the best, I think you are doing some good work though we don’t agree on all things clearly and I will continue to tell people I like your work if they ask, even if they bring up your childish attacks.
Living in the public eye has taught me you have to be okay with some people hating you, no matter if their reasons are sound or baseless, you just have to rock on. Good luck Ben.
Since Jack has chosen not to remember, nor look up, the times he was “harsh” and since be states here he won’t “even bother to listen to this episode”, we don’t have anything to talk about except this one point:
No Jack, when you said “In any event I am sure the day and the day after I did my piece on this BQ got more visits than any time in history.” you couldn’t have been more wrong. You flatter yourself, as usual. This Spirko bump in visits is not even in the top 5.
See? ^^^^ Believing one’s own press is the ultimate cap on success. Jack needs to have a big, steaming helping of humble pie every once in a while, then maybe he’d be ok.
I used to enjoy TSP some time back until the one episode where it was nothing but bitching about some piece of forum drama. When TSP start mixing forum drama with a podcast, that podcast then has ZERO chance of being “evergreen”. You can’t rerun it because then it’s mostly dated crap. Unless like this one it illustrates a point.
When you have a group headed by someone with narcissism issues, more and more time keeps going to maintain that person’s ego. Egos are sort of castles in the sand built at low tide, when the tide rolls in, the higher you built that sucker, the worse the fall. Narcissism turns into toxic leadership, and then into a toxic culture when those with any sense of self respect start to bail out. They get sick of being used, and then abused when they won’t put up with the BS anymore.
I really haven’t seen the particular drama on TSPs forum, but the pattern is well known on the net. I believe there were no less than five forums in recent history based on bushcraft, survival preps, and assorted “zombie” themes that went down this exact road, and have since stagnated to almost nothing.
Oddly enough, the money these guys pulled down from ads and sponsorships wasn’t much more than maybe $5-8K a year. But the owners saw the hit counts spike, and the user base increase, and the egos started to get way way out of control.
But the reality is, forums, BBSs, chat channels, etc all have roughly the same lifecycle. 3-6 years before stagnation, and maybe 6 months to 3 years before the niche spinoffs start to seriously siphon users away because there’s no fresh material on the original forum anymore. The trend will of course accelerate if the original magnet forum start to toxify, and the newbies get pounded on by the forum mods too much. Or if the board owner starts to turn into some Idi Amin modeled nut who thinks someone is “stealing” their user base and people are out to get them. Then the forum mods bail, and leave the owner to shovel his own spam. 😉
As to the podcast, Ben had me going for most of the cast. I thought he was about to let the guy off as he sounded like he was making excuses people tend to make for sociopaths they’re co-dependent with, and then BAM! lol
Dude, I am a writer. I deliberately do not read certain genres of literature because I do not want to accidentally plagiarize another writer. That’s not being “static.” It’s being smart as far as legalities go, and also being respectful of other writers’ stuff.
Oil Lady,
I know you are known for your intelligent, honest, and thoughtful posts.
After reading your response here I looked at your post on the same topic on TSP Forum. I was surprised at the contrast. I was surprised at the lack of explanation and depth, here as opposed to there. But mostly I was saddened at your embracing of the typical statist IP position expressed in your TSP Forum response. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the AnCap argument on IP?
I suggest you check out my friend, Stephan Kinsella. Specifically his book, Against Intellectual Property. It is a brief but specific handling of the topic. I think if you take the time to read it you may have a clearer understanding of my criticism of Jack’s silly statist position.
Thanks.
Ben
I am a new listener to the show – Jack’s rant brought me here. I’m not sure yet what I think about your show, but it is interesting so far. I listened to the show about dropping the bombs on Japan and it made me interested in more.
I like Jack’s show most of the time, but sometimes he bothers me with his attitude.
Do a search for the word “classic” in The search bar at the top right, that’s a great way to catch up on Bens’ work. There are so many great podcasts of his, check them out. If your a statist minarchist now, after a few weeks/months of listening you will be a voluntaryist/anarchocapitalist, its inevitable if your logical. I also highly recommend the freedom feens podcast for a lighthearted libertarian/voluntaryist show. They also do live shows on real radio on Saturday and Sundays, you can hear them on lrn.fm.
Wow, I have no idea what a statist minarchist or a voluntaryist/anarchocapitalist even is. I’ll listen to the classic podcast search results and see where it leads.
Okay, I searched a bit and I realize I have a lot to consider. I’m starting from a position of a monarchist I think… The idea of a night watchman state is where I am starting from. This should be interesting.
That’s minarchism (not monarchism). But it was probably just a typo.
Voluntaryism means that one takes the moral position that all human relationships should be based on voluntary consent of all parties involved.
Anarchocapitalism is closely related to voluntaryism. In a nutshell, it is the political/social worldview that necessarily results from acceptance of the non-aggression principle (the moral principle that one ought not impose his will upon another using force or the threat thereof except in self defense or defense of another).
Ha – yeah that was a typo!
Check out Larken Rose. I highly recommend his book “The Most Dangerous Superstition”, it helped me tremendously.
I don’t think Ben will mind me mentioning this her…I know Ben supports Larkens work.
Listened to jack for about a year, made me feel like i was listening to Alex jones. I was afraid about a collapse too much. I like all the gardening, solar and other survival advice but i just cannot take that level of fear. Now I garden and prep as usual, but I listen to ftl, bad quaker, freedomfeens, stefan molyneux and Adam kokesh. I am much happier.
I have a different opinion of jack now, based on the FACTS Ben has discussed in this podcast. I guess Jack never thought you would have saved those chats or been as perceptive as you are. Unfortunately for Jack, he appears to have lost his credibility. Being caught lying is serious in a world where reputation is everything.
Thanks for saying that Bro.
Ben
Ikefeen,
I’m wondering if the time that you listened to Jack was in his early “podcasting from the Jetta” days. I ask, because Jack’s show isn’t about fear at all, and certainly not on the level of Alex Jones (who would have you thinking the SWAT team is assembling outside of your door right NOW). Jack’s show is about long-term prepping, and he makes it clear that other than local natural disruptions (like Sandy or Nemo), he doesn’t think anything’s coming down the pike other than a collapse of the economy – and he thinks that’s YEARS down the road. Generally, he tells people to prep just to be prepared for anything, and to improve their life overall.
If it’s been a while since you listened, you might want to tune in again – especially now that he is doing a lot of interviews with knowledgeable folks on the tuesday-thursday slots on very specific topics such as gardening, solar, etc. (That is, if you can get past the part where you think he’s lost credibility due to Ben’s perception of events.)
Ben – I listen to both of you guys, and feel like I’m watching two of my friends having a fight. It’s hard to see/hear, as a listener.
I hope that you guys either get this worked out, or agree to disagree and drop it. Since you’re both so involved in this community and attend the same events, I can’t imagine feeling like you *must* leave a room because someone else walked in. You have every right to be there and talking with people, just as he does, and you’ve got things to discuss with folks about your own website and projects as well. You can’t just drop the subject and scurry out of the room to respect his wishes – and no one would expect you to. Jack wouldn’t even expect you to do that. It’s silly, and if you kept that up (ending conversations and leaving whenever he came within 100 feet of you), he could effectively shut your projects down simply by following you around the convention hall. (Which I assume he wouldn’t do – I’m just illustrating how self-defeating that stance is; and how it opens you up to exploitation.) There’s a difference between “leave me and mine alone” (aka: don’t talk to me ever again) and “I’m filing a restraining order against you saying you can’t be within 500 feet of me”. You’re taking the restraining order approach when it’s not necessary.
You can’t keep that up when you’re both going to be talking to the same people (Kelly at SurvivalGearBags, for example, runs the TSP gear shop – so technically you could count him as “me and mine”) and attending the same functions. Simply not speaking to each other would be enough.
Like I said, I hope you guys get this figured out either way; whether you end up shaking hands in the end or never speaking to each other again. I enjoy you both, for different reasons, and I take both of you with all of your faults and egos intact. Jack certainly can be a spiteful jackass when he feels he’s being insulted (and sometimes he thinks he’s being insulted when the person didn’t intend to offend him at all), and at the same time you can definitely be a rigid black-and-white idealist who has a hard time seeing when someone is moving down the path towards anarchy but has paused along the way to digest everything they’ve taken in. Sometimes folks need to process what they’ve learned, and reflect on it, before they continue down the path – to you, those people are supporting Statism and are Statists through and through. They might still be supporting Statism through their habitual actions, but their minds are changing and they’re open to suggestion and guidance. Eventually, their habitual actions will change to reflect the things they’ve learned and come to know as Truth. Not everything is so black-and-white, at least not all the time. Hmm. That might be better stated as: many things are black-and-white, but people aren’t one of them. People are constantly learning, reassessing, and changing.
Anyhoo. Hope the rest of your week goes better than this one has, and that you and your wife enjoy the rest of your trip.
When i listen to Jack or Alex it makes me feel like i’m unprepared for what may be coming. Mainly because these guys are uber-prepared. The entire topic of Jacks show is prepping and survival, that topic is naturally fear inducing and I cannot tolerate any amount of unessential fear anymore. I just like hearing about freedom, liberty and especially the happenings in keene and the FSP where they are using PEACE against the state. That makes me feel warm, fuzzy and happy.
I agree with this so much. Jack blows up too much for my tastes, it’s a definite flaw. But Ben is the type of Libertarian/Anarchist I have come to loathe as I’ve transitioned from more of the standard Republican/Conservative view to a more AnCap view. Basically, people like Ben feel like they get to hand down pronouncements from on high about precisely who does and does not get to be in their cool little AnCap purist club. These people are the final arbiters on who is and is not worthy of standing with them, and everyone else is a pig disgusting statist.
” Basically, people like Ben feel like they get to hand down pronouncements from on high about precisely who does and does not get to be in their cool little AnCap purist club.”
Anybody who considers themselves to be an AnCap, believes in strong property rights, starting with your own person, and is always guided by the Non-Aggression Principle when determining right from wrong.
If you don’t subscribe to those ideas then you’re simply not an AnCap. But you could be, as you said, a “pig disgusting statist” (sic), and that would have nothing whatsoever to do with Ben.